Curse

Thunder79 · May 08, 2007, 05:28 PM // 17:28

In this case PVE-Only skills are bad because they appear to want to use those as an excuse to make PvP Skill balances without regard for how they will affect PvE. That is not the way to balance the game. If they are going to start doing that then I want them to completely separate PvP skills from PvE...and balance them as required. Substituting a small number of PvE only skills in hopes that it will satisfy the PvE playerbase will lead to one thing...people being pissed off they don't have a PVE-Only equivalent to a skill that got balanced for PvP only...

VGJustice · May 08, 2007, 05:45 PM // 17:45

I'm mixed on the PvE Only skills. If they're so overpowering that there's no reason to use anything else, then no one will use anything else, creating a major stagnation in PvE (like the Holy Trinity when the game went live). I'd rather not ever see that again. Also, what if they're all elite skills? Then you've still got to round out your bar with 6 or 7 "SuperNerfed by PvP" skills. This won't solve the problem of separating PvP and PvE, and would act as more of a crutch.

But, having a full bar of 8 PvE Only skills would also act like a crutch if none of them require any balancing (beyond making individual classes roughly equal).

Another thing, will all chapters have access to these skills? If it's only for Nightfall, then Prophecies and Factions only players will get screwed royally. That would hurt the game more than anything, and would just be wrong.

I just hope that A.Net really takes their time in deciding this. If it's poorly implemented then it'll only make matters worse rather than better.

Zinger314 · May 08, 2007, 10:01 PM // 22:01

We know that ArenaNet will eventually release Sunspear/LB skills which are PvE only. The question is: how strong will they be?

They have to be strong enough to be used, so that puts them above an Elite level. Gaile also said that the skills would be the reason Mesmers would be accepted into PvE PuGs.

As such, here's a sample for each profession what I think the Sunspear skills might be:

(note: keep in mind that Sunspear ranks go up to Rank 10, so picture some of these skills at r10.)

Warrior:
Sunspear Fury
You gain 1 strike of adrenaline for each Sunspear rank you have attained.
5e/30r

This is obviously a Warrior-focused skill, which gives the Warrior a lot of power. Simple and uncreative; just what I'd expect.

Ranger:
Sunspear Survival
For 15 seconds, you are immune to Conditions and you gain +1 Health Regeneration for each Sunspear rank you have attained.
15e/30r

Somewhat related to Ranger stances/Troll Unguent. Less powerful than some other skills, but it's not like Rangers need any more powerful skills in PvE...

Elementalist:
Sunspear Storm
Create a Sunspear Storm at target foe's location. For 1 second for each Sunspear rank you have obtained, foes adjacent to that location are struck for 30 damage each second and move 50% slower.
15e/30r

Duh. Elementalists and armor-ignoring damage. Not rocket-science. But this opens the oppertunity for skills' durations based on Sunspear rank...

Necromancer
Sunspear Feast
You steal 15 health for each Sunspear rank you have obtained from target foe and all nearby foes.
10e/15r

Remember when Necromancers used to steal life in PvE? This would revive it. Plus, it results in a nice chunk of damage.

Monk
Sunspear Aegis
For 10 seconds, your party takes 5% less damage for each Sunspear rank you have obtained.
10e/30r

Super-Aegis? What else?

Mesmer
Sunspear Blackout
For 1 second for each Sunspear rank you have obtained, all of target foe's skills are disabled.
10e/20r

And that's how you fix the Mesmer in PvE: Making it a true shutdown, no questions asked. It would also make Mesmers even more of a boss-killer.

Assassin
Sunspear Flurry
For 15 seconds, your dagger attack skills recharge 10% faster for each Sunspear rank you have obtained.
10e/20r

That's how you fix the Assassin in PvE; let them spike forever. ("dagger attack" is necessary so that it doesn't become [more] abusive with Barrage)

Ritualist
Sunspear Summoning
For 15 seconds, your Rituals recharge 10% faster for each Sunspear rank you have obtained.
10e/20r

Same philosophy as Assassin. This would literally revive the Ritual Lord, atleast.

Dervish
Sunspear Mysticism
For 10 seconds, the next time an Enchantments ends on you, adjacent foes are Blinded and Dazed for 1 second for each Sunspear rank you have obtained.
5e/10r

Basically taking the flavor of the Dervish's effect-on-end Enchants to a new level. Dervish need the massive PvE buff that this skill would cause.

Paragon
Sunspear Chant
For 10 seconds, the next time a party member within earshot uses a skill, that ally gains 3 adrenaline and 1 Energy for each Sunspear rank you have obtained.
10e/30r

Massive Energy would make the Paragon quite popular.

While some of these skills may be imbalanced (they are not suggestions), they are what I'd expect ArenaNet to go with these skills.

Thoughts?

Zinger314 · May 08, 2007, 10:21 PM // 22:21

Also want to add (since the buggy forums didn't raise this topic to the top after that post), that I agree that if done improperly, these skills will destroy the game.

The Great Al · May 08, 2007, 10:46 PM // 22:46

Parties would basically consist of 3 Necros, 3 Elems, a tank, and a monk

drakun01 · May 08, 2007, 11:06 PM // 23:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

That's already known (try equipping LB Gaze or Sunspear res signet in a PvP outpost), but isn't relevant. Gaile specifically mentioned that it would affect PvP balance, which is awkward.

Yeah, they effect PvP balance by not having to be balanced.

sindex · May 09, 2007, 12:52 AM // 00:52

It would be nice if the Devrish Sunspear skill actually made the avatars last a little bit longer then usual. Also for the mesmer, a little bit more powerful version of the signet of illusion.

Seef II · May 09, 2007, 12:59 AM // 00:59

I'd like to see a PvE-only IAS for the dervish, since Heart of Fury and Whirling Charge are kind of unwieldy. But if LB Sig is any indication, some of these are going to be piles of crap.

icymanipulator · May 09, 2007, 01:23 AM // 01:23

I had some mesmer ideas I was rolling around and this seems to be as good a place as any. Now these in particular hail back to my MUD days where an Illusionist class was used that has quite a few similarities to the mesmer.

1. Why can't mesmers charm? Limit it with recharge time, but if necros can use Verata's gaze to pull in enemy minions why wouldn't a mesmer be able to charm an enemy using illusion or domination?

2. A 'blend' skill. Deceive a pack of mobs into thinking the team is dead or invisible to enemy radar. Could be used in a pinch to completely dodge a particularly nasty group or provide healers with a break. Once again could be tied to illusion.

3. Reduce the diameter of the aggro bubble. Similar idea to blend but would just make it easier to sneak around.

4. How about a sleep skill? Beguiling (Illusion) is a classic MUD spellgroup and theres no invis, sleep, charm etc. in GW.

Now I can see these having ramifications in PvP so why not make #1 and #4 target mobs only. I am not talking blackout or diversion, I am talking total and complete single target shutdown. #2 can have a particularly long cooldown or a high casting cost and the same for #3. I had come up with others but #3 in particular is something I had been wishing Guildwars had since I first started playing it. Think about how cool it could be if you could shrink the aggro bubble. Stuff like this would make mesmers kick ass in PvE and a hell of a lot more entertaining to play in my opinion.

warpedheat101 · May 09, 2007, 01:48 AM // 01:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by icymanipulator

1. Why can't mesmers charm? Limit it with recharge time, but if necros can use Verata's gaze to pull in enemy minions why wouldn't a mesmer be able to charm an enemy using illusion or domination?

^now thats what i'd like to see mesmers getting

Tactical-Dillusions · May 09, 2007, 02:11 AM // 02:11

Give me a permanent whirling defence, a quick shot that deals 100 damage, an instant cast troll unguent and preparations that act more like "charm animal" in that you only need to equip it.

I care little for PvP. I just want to go out and kill NPC's and have FUN!

ayame ftw · May 09, 2007, 06:32 AM // 06:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by icymanipulator

I had some mesmer ideas I was rolling around and this seems to be as good a place as any. Now these in particular hail back to my MUD days where an Illusionist class was used that has quite a few similarities to the mesmer.

1. Why can't mesmers charm? Limit it with recharge time, but if necros can use Verata's gaze to pull in enemy minions why wouldn't a mesmer be able to charm an enemy using illusion or domination?

2. A 'blend' skill. Deceive a pack of mobs into thinking the team is dead or invisible to enemy radar. Could be used in a pinch to completely dodge a particularly nasty group or provide healers with a break. Once again could be tied to illusion.

3. Reduce the diameter of the aggro bubble. Similar idea to blend but would just make it easier to sneak around.

4. How about a sleep skill? Beguiling (Illusion) is a classic MUD spellgroup and theres no invis, sleep, charm etc. in GW.

Now I can see these having ramifications in PvP so why not make #1 and #4 target mobs only. I am not talking blackout or diversion, I am talking total and complete single target shutdown. #2 can have a particularly long cooldown or a high casting cost and the same for #3. I had come up with others but #3 in particular is something I had been wishing Guildwars had since I first started playing it. Think about how cool it could be if you could shrink the aggro bubble. Stuff like this would make mesmers kick ass in PvE and a hell of a lot more entertaining to play in my opinion.

U can already guess what these pve only skills are going to be…
Just look for 5 second to WoW and u know what they are going to be

Mages:
Plymorf: Transforms the enemy into a sheep, forcing it to wander around for up to 50 sec. While wandering, the sheep cannot attack or cast spells but will regenerate very quickly. Any damage will transform the target back into its normal form. Only one target can be polymorphed at a time.
Arcane interlect: skill, Increases the target's Intellect energypool by x for x min.

Assassin:
Stealth: u turn invisible and move 25% slower
Stun: when u hit a mob in when u are in stealth u stun him for x seconds. (Stun = cant move or do anything, this effect ends when mob takes damage)

Warrior:
Sunder armor: Sunders the target's armor, reducing it by 5 per Sunder Armor and causes a high amount of threat. Can be applied up to 5 times. Lasts x sec.
Taunt: Taunts the target to attack you, but has no effect if the target is already attacking you.
Shield wall: Reduces the damage taken from melee attacks, ranged attacks and spells by 50% for x sec.

Necro:
Fear: Strikes fear in the enemy, causing it to run in fear for up to x sec. Damage caused may interrupt the effect. Only 1 target can be feared at a time.

Monk:
Player of mending: Places a spell on the target that heals them for x the next time they take damage. When the heal occurs, Prayer of Mending jumps to an ally in the area. Jumps up to x times and lasts x sec after each jump. This spell can only be placed on one target at a time

Ranger:
Volley: Continuously fires a volley of x arrows at the target, causing x damage to enemy target.
True shot aura: Increases the attack power of party members in the area by x. Lasts x min.

RbX · May 09, 2007, 07:36 AM // 07:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by ayame ftw

U can already guess what these pve only skills are going to be…
Just look for 5 second to WoW and u know what they are going to be

Mages:
Plymorf: Transforms the enemy into a sheep, forcing it to wander around for up to 50 sec. While wandering, the sheep cannot attack or cast spells but will regenerate very quickly. Any damage will transform the target back into its normal form. Only one target can be polymorphed at a time.
Arcane interlect: skill, Increases the target's Intellect energypool by x for x min.

Assassin:
Stealth: u turn invisible and move 25% slower
Stun: when u hit a mob in when u are in stealth u stun him for x seconds. (Stun = cant move or do anything, this effect ends when mob takes damage)

Warrior:
Sunder armor: Sunders the target's armor, reducing it by 5 per Sunder Armor and causes a high amount of threat. Can be applied up to 5 times. Lasts x sec.
Taunt: Taunts the target to attack you, but has no effect if the target is already attacking you.
Shield wall: Reduces the damage taken from melee attacks, ranged attacks and spells by 50% for x sec.

Necro:
Fear: Strikes fear in the enemy, causing it to run in fear for up to x sec. Damage caused may interrupt the effect. Only 1 target can be feared at a time.

Monk:
Player of mending: Places a spell on the target that heals them for x the next time they take damage. When the heal occurs, Prayer of Mending jumps to an ally in the area. Jumps up to x times and lasts x sec after each jump. This spell can only be placed on one target at a time

Ranger:
Volley: Continuously fires a volley of x arrows at the target, causing x damage to enemy target.
True shot aura: Increases the attack power of party members in the area by x. Lasts x min.

Played too much WoW?
Skills are nearly identical. Always remember: GW is different!

icymanipulator · May 09, 2007, 02:10 PM // 14:10

I'm not really trying to compare one thing to another with my post, more like trying to follow some logic with the class. If you have an illusion attribute it would lead me to believe in title only there would be more illusions. Something like charm, invisibility, or sleep. I realize these would be a new mechanic to Guildwars but honestly I think they would make mesmers kick ass. Completely locking down a single (or multiple with echo) targets in PvE would make hardmode a blast not to mention making mesmers highly desireable again

SotiCoto · May 09, 2007, 02:23 PM // 14:23

While we're at it.... why don't we get skills for OTHER titles too? ... v_v;;

If I'm Protector of Tyria... then I wanna be able to rally tyrian NPCs or somesuch into following me!

For being Canthan Grandmaster Cartographer... I want a special bamf skill that can let me get into really awkward and interesting places!

And for Kind of a Big Deal.... I want a nuclear warhead to lay the hurt on everything on the compass...
A small nuke... that'll get bigger and do more damage when I up the title track... =P

*Coughs*

[What is sarcasm and what isn't? You decide.]

Ferret · May 09, 2007, 02:34 PM // 14:34

Personally, i like the idea of PvE only skills. AT last, a set of skills which wont suffer the PvP abuse nerf bat. A set of skills you can generally rely on to stay the same and not have your build screwed because someone in PvP goes all power happy with it.

I think there should have be PvE only skills from the beginning, then you would probably not find the kind of negativity being generated.
PvE only skills may not be super powerful, in fact they do not need to be, they just need to be useful.
It is also highly unlikely that there will be enough for each class (and of a nature you feel is worthwhile) to completely use PvE only skills on your skill bar, so the existing skills out there will still be used.
Personally, i never really had a problem with LB Gaze and sometimes even done areas without it, as it didnt really help my build, it was more versatile without it.

Lastly, we have not even had any confrmation on the skills or any real details, so why not leave the paranoia and doom until we actually have the facts and can actually say OMG, it does what!!!

BladeDVD · May 09, 2007, 07:30 PM // 19:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by icymanipulator

I had some mesmer ideas I was rolling around and this seems to be as good a place as any. Now these in particular hail back to my MUD days where an Illusionist class was used that has quite a few similarities to the mesmer.

1. Why can't mesmers charm? Limit it with recharge time, but if necros can use Verata's gaze to pull in enemy minions why wouldn't a mesmer be able to charm an enemy using illusion or domination?

You mean some kind of hex you cast on your enemy that reveresed their targets Heals they cast would heal a random member of your party? Damage skills they cast would hurt a random member of their party? That would be cool.

The Great Al · May 09, 2007, 08:56 PM // 20:56

I wish there was a mesmer spell that was something like, "For x seconds, target foe's attacks hit for y% more, but there is a z% chance that he will instead hit his closest ally, and himself, instead.

xshadowwolfx · May 10, 2007, 12:09 AM // 00:09

Well, PvE can't be totally unbalanced or else the market would die. >_<

Sir Skullcrasher · May 10, 2007, 12:13 AM // 00:13

PvE is fine!